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Skoll Virtual World Summit: LEGAL EMPOWERMENT, COVID-19 & EXPANDING ACCESS TO JUSTICE W/T - Shared screen with gallery view
John Otrompke
06:52
Hi everyone!
Zachariah DeMeola
17:04
Hi John!
Mary Ann McLean
17:25
sorry I missed first part of meeting. which regulations are you talking about specifically?
Michele Pistone
18:16
We will talk about the regs next - but assuming no regs, how do we solve this access to justice problem
Mary Ann McLean
18:22
ty
John Otrompke
18:28
Fascinating
Senovio Shish
18:35
how about a trusted marketplace where people seeking hep can find it at a transparent price
Audra Passinault
19:50
more investment in translating processes / laws into pro se friendly materials.
John Otrompke
20:50
I propose: abolish most criminal laws, thereby freeing up supply
Mary Helen McNeal
21:28
We have been preparing pro se materials for years, and people are still not getting access. And I think recent research shows, at least in L/T context, that people with lawyers, and certainly advocates, get much better results.
Janet Heppard
21:32
I am in Texas
John Otrompke
21:34
NYC
Mary Ann McLean
21:36
PA
Theresa Yuan
21:38
Indiana
Rachel Karam
21:39
hi everyone, connecting from Brazil here
Coleen Chase
21:42
WA
Joanna Tinus
21:42
Canada
Alexis McGivern
21:43
From the UK, but have worked with asylum seekers in Geneva, Switzerland
Audra Passinault
21:43
Chicago, IL
Jana Kinsey
21:47
Arusha, Tanzania, but I’m an American with an American law degree
Pavi Mclean
21:47
Philadelphia, PA
Cyndy
21:48
Pennsylvania
Suzette Melendez
21:49
New York
William Paja
21:57
Oxford, UK
Kalyn Livernois
21:57
North Carolina
Maura Holt-Ling
22:03
North Carolina
Sabrina Mahtani
22:04
Calling from UK but keen to widen the discussion to a more global perspective, particularly Africa
Jane Brady
22:08
New York, NY
Courtney Beer
22:09
Maine
Jordon Frank
22:11
NY
Eliza Vorenberg
22:15
Rhode Island
Paul Cain
22:18
Illinois
Kelli Raker
22:20
Hi Bridget and Stacy! Here in Durham, NC.
Michelle Taikeff
22:26
San Jose, CA.
Mary Helen McNeal
22:50
Mary Helen McNeal, New York
Gina Calabrese
23:09
NYC - Queens specifically. It's the most diverse county in the US. clinic assists consumers being sued for debt. Pervasive abuse by collection lawyers and even judges. We do have a limited scope program in place in NYC
Federico Fernandez
23:51
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Sarah Baranik
28:14
Calling in from Viña del Mar, Chile but I am a US attorney.
Gina Calabrese
31:39
Why totally eliminate the rule that prohibits partnering wiht non-lawyers instead of creating exceptions or modifications?
Suzette Melendez
31:51
What about looking to other forms of innovative legal service delivery such as collaborative divorce which is trying to develop pro bono models and partners with other professionals? Also to deal with issues of domestic violence.
Suzette Melendez
33:03
Also thinking about reaching out to medical legal partnerships to borrow from medical models the utilize PA’s an nurse practitioners for service delivery?
John Otrompke
33:45
Neat idea
Zachariah DeMeola
34:09
Gina - another way to look at Rule 5.4 is to ask, why have a categorical prohibition on lawyers sharing fees/ownership with others when there is no evidence that these sorts of economic restrictions protect the public or even support a lawyer's independent judgment?
Gina Calabrese
35:28
I disagree that it doesn't affect independent judgment of lawyers
Crispin Passmore
36:29
One of the mistakes regulators make is to write rules on what is allowed. That is the wrong way around. We should allow everything that is permissable under competition and consumer laws - and go further with more restrictive rules only where we have real evidence of harm
John Otrompke
37:16
It would be good to have more scientific evidence of the effects of legal regulation. Do such studies exist in the professional literature?
Crispin Passmore
37:55
There is plenty in England & Wales. Google Legal Services Board research and you find a great repository
John Otrompke
38:28
Neat
Bridget Gramme
42:30
Here is the California Task Force Report (it's an attachement to the memo) https://board.calbar.ca.gov/docs/agendaItem/Public/agendaitem1000025644.pdf
Mary Helen McNeal
43:24
VA has a certified/required training program for all advocates, lawyers and nonlawyers
Chase Hertel
44:56
Another example, for what its worth, of people who are not lawyers (in the US) helping with legal issues - patent agents
Kelli Raker
45:01
Yes, Duke started the first Physicians Assistants school :)
Stacy Butler
46:24
Here is the Arizona Task Force Report: https://www.azcourts.gov/Portals/74/LSTF/Report/LSTFReportRecommendationsRED10042019.pdf?ver=2019-10-07-084849-750
claire wathen
47:56
thanks all, have to leave early... lovely to join the conversation. see you online later this week, Claire, Skoll Foundation, cwathen@skoll.org
Zachariah DeMeola
47:59
And here is Utah's set of recommendations, including explanation of the regulatory sandbox: https://iaals.du.edu/sites/default/files/documents/publications/ut_reg_reform_final.pdf
Michele Pistone
49:27
For more about VIISTA, visit immigrantadvocate.villanova.edu
Crispin Passmore
50:27
A blog I wrote back in January And it is mor eurgent in current health crisis https://www.passmoreconsulting.co.uk/re-regulating-legal-services-in-the-us
Chase Hertel
50:55
Other examples of online dispute resolution:1) https://www.courtinnovations.com/2) https://coparenter.com/3) https://www.fairclaims.com/
Stacy Butler
52:09
And the State of Utah built it's own online dispute resolution platform - being piloted in three counties now for small claims debt collection.
Chase Hertel
52:37
Yes! Thanks for adding, Stacy!
Gloria Cock-Correa
52:50
I cant see the slides
Laura Goodwin
54:36
To learn more about discrimination in access to legal identity documentation in Kenya, see this policy brief: https://namati.org/resources/vices-of-discrimination-impacts-of-vetting-delays-in-issuance-of-id-cards-kenya/ - which includes analysis from community paralegal case data
Gina Calabrese
55:13
I think online dispute platforms are suitable for disputes that are limited to money damages or are otherwise lack critical factual/legal disputes, lack substantial procedural issues (like lack of service of process, or "sewer service"), and in which the parties have relatively parity of power. These models, as has been said, originated in consumer/vendor disputes. Many legal issues can't be equated with returning a broken household item, etc.
Crispin Passmore
56:29
UK parking tribunal is all on line and asynchronous. Works brilliantly with real judges on a simple platform.
Gina Calabrese
57:14
In NY, we can resolve parking tickets online, and I agree that works well. It is also optional.
Laura Goodwin
57:17
Here is an online resource guide on developing community paralegal programs: https://namati.org/resources/developing-a-community-paralegal-program/ 
Laura Goodwin
59:15
And another specifically on recognition, regulation, and financing of community paralegals: https://namati.org/resources/community-paralegals-recognition-and-financing/
Pavi Mclean
59:36
So VIISTA focuses solely on immigration correct?
Gina Calabrese
59:54
In NY, advocates for people who are lower-income, unsophisticated, etc have identified numerous challenges to implemention ODR. In rural NY, many clients have rejected processes for online intake. They want to talk to someone. There are also technology issues.
Chase Hertel
01:00:36
To help track the regulatory changes underway in the US, the ABA Center for Innovation (where I work) has created this resource, intended especially for audiences like this:http://legalinnovationregulatorysurvey.info/
Gina Calabrese
01:00:52
Yes they are!
Michele Pistone
01:00:55
VIISTA is a certificate program to train immigrant advocates
Sarah Baranik
01:01:56
I think this is also a matter of what lawyers want to do - do lawyers really want to do these tasks that can be automated or concentrate on more interesting issues?
Chase Hertel
01:02:01
IAALS also has a fabulous resource:https://iaals.du.edu/knowledge-center
John Otrompke
01:02:44
Rights are often very contentious, and possibly subjective.
Gina Calabrese
01:03:03
Sarah, I agree. I also think the fees lawyers charge for tasks that are essentially automated are prohibitive.
Crispin Passmore
01:03:14
A similar crisis to now in London 1666 - the Great Fire. They relaxed guild regulation because they needed the city rebuilt. They never managed to get the restrictions back again. https://www.passmoreconsulting.co.uk/law-firms-snub-reform-at-their-own-peril
John Otrompke
01:03:30
But I agree, people, including non-lawyers should have more freedom to advocate back-and-forth re what their rights are
Chase Hertel
01:03:50
The genie is out of the bottle, Crispin. Totally agree.
John Otrompke
01:03:54
Regulation of lawyers could conceivably sometimes have a chilling effect on that
Gina Calabrese
01:05:52
We did that in NY
Suzette Melendez
01:06:04
Gina, I would love to have the opportunity to discuss this more with you. Thank you for your perspective. Dealing with a lot of what you raise.
John Otrompke
01:06:23
Thank you everyone!
Suzette Melendez
01:06:30
Thanks again, Michele and everyone!
Pavi Mclean
01:06:38
Thank you.
Crispin Passmore
01:06:45
Well done Michele - and thank you so much for invitation to participate
Mary Ann McLean
01:06:47
Thank you for the interesting presentation and information!
Cyndy
01:07:03
Excellent and informative.
Paula Galowitz
01:07:24
Thank you. Very informative presentation.
Mary Helen McNeal
01:07:34
Thanks to you all, from Mary Helen McNeal
Janet Heppard
01:07:58
This is Janet Heppard in Texas; thanks so much to everyone. This was very informative.
Chase Hertel
01:08:01
chase.hertel@americanbar.org
Theresa Yuan
01:08:13
Thanks!